Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

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veebass
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 16 Aug 2018, 18:21

noplanb wrote:
16 Aug 2018, 17:41
'Secular' can become another 'free ticket' for abhorrent behaviour for immigration - do we really want immigrants with belief systems of polygamy, child marriage, FGM, suppression of women, etc, here in Australia?
Hang on! When I said
non racist, secular immigration has been the policy in this country for getting towards 50 years now.
You replied
Exactly! Its wonderful.
I am confused as to you actual position. Do you support a non racist, secular approach or not?
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by packrat » 16 Aug 2018, 18:24

noplanb wrote:
16 Aug 2018, 17:41
'Secular' can become another 'free ticket' for abhorrent behaviour for immigration - do we really want immigrants with belief systems of polygamy, child marriage, FGM, suppression of women, etc, here in Australia?
It is hypocrisy of the highest order to (rightly) condemn the actions of certain (criminal) priests, organisation leaders, schoolteachers, for crimes against children, and yet not prohibit from immigrating here those from a culture that practise the above, and whats more, to start turning a blind eye to it in the name of multicultural tolerance or some such.
Call it what you want, but stop using labels to excuse bad stuff.
We've already got people who declare the protection of child-rapists is their duty and countless adherents to their cult. We've got people advocating for the torture of gay children right here in this thread. There are widespread adherents to male genital mutilation because religion. We are, presumably, relying on the rule of law to hunt down the people who attempt to put those things into practice. Except where the law hasn't caught up.

Child marriage, it turns out, happens much more in the christian communities of the US than anywhere else I'm aware of, again, mostly to cover up rape. Maybe you didn't want to bring that example up?

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by packrat » 16 Aug 2018, 18:25

veebass wrote:
16 Aug 2018, 18:21

I am confused as to you actual position. Do you support a non racist, secular approach or not?
His actual position as stated in this thread is "only Christians should be allowed to come to Australia" with a figleaf excuse about integration.

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 16 Aug 2018, 18:33

packrat wrote:
16 Aug 2018, 18:24

Child marriage, it turns out, happens much more in the christian communities of the US than anywhere else I'm aware of, again, mostly to cover up rape. Maybe you didn't want to bring that example up?

B>
Don't need to look that far afield, I am afraid. Apparently it has been on the statutes in Victoria that it is not illegal to have sex with a minor over 12 if you are married to the child for that very reason for a very long time. Long before we had heard of the Islamic harems allegedly commonplace in Lakemba.

I think it is still there. If it has gone it is only recent. There was a push within Labor to get the Andrews government to get rid of it about twelve months ago from memory.

Note how The Australian makes the bad guys the Muslims, not the white guys who made the law in the first place.

Transcript follows.
Sex with child OK in Victoria if married
By EAN HIGGINS
THEAUSTRALIAN
11:00PM MARCH 23, 2014
THE Victorian government is under pressure to scrap an antiquated legal loophole that states an adult can lawfully have sex with a child as young as 12 so long as they are married.
Islamic activist group Hizb ut-Tahrir rediscovered the old law following a recent alleged “child bride” case in NSW, and is claiming that in Victoria it would not have been a crime.
Victorian Attorney-General Robert Clark insists the federal Marriage Act overrides the state law, since it generally only allows and recognises marriage for couples aged over 18, and in some cases where the non-adult is aged 16 or 17.
But a Victorian advocate group said as long as the state law remained on the books, Islamic men could believe it entitled them to marry child brides as the law often allowed in their traditional cultures.
“Not all men from overseas who come here to marry know about our laws,” the executive director of the Victorian Immigrant and Refugee Women’s Coalition, Melba Marginson, said.
The underage marriage issue made headlines when a 26-year-old man, who was visiting from Lebanon on a student visa, was arrested in NSW after he unwittingly told authorities he had married a 12-year-old girl. Police charged the man with 25 counts of having sexual intercourse with a child under the age of 14.
Hizb ut-Tahrir posted an article on the issue. “Some may be surprised to know that had the present case occurred only a few hundred kilometres to the south, the accused would not be liable to any sexual offences, given relevant exceptions made in the Victorian legislation,” the organisation says on its website.
Hizb ut-Tahrir referred to section 45 (3) of the Victorian Crime Act covering statutory rape of minors, which says the crime does not apply if “(a) the child is aged between 12 and 16; and (b) the persons taking part in the act are married to each other.”
A Victorian Department of Justice discussion paper in October recommended removing the law from the books.
A spokesman for Mr Clark said “the Coalition government will consider the possible repeal of redundant provisions as part of our response to the discussion paper outcomes”.
The Victorian opposition spokesman on legal affairs, Martin Pakula, said the government should implement the recommendation. “The continued existence of this out-of-date exemption can only cause confusion and it has no ongoing place in Victorian law,” he said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... e22d76366e

EDIT: Looks like it is gone, thank goodness.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 19:46

the white guys who made the law
One can only wonder who did it in the first place and why. At least it has been removed. It does illustrate the point.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by vin-tone » 16 Aug 2018, 20:18

Well ... it illustrates the point that we have laws in this country that override cultural traditions that are not appropriate here.

This is just fear mongering to excuse bigotry.
Last edited by vin-tone on 16 Aug 2018, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 20:19

Those fleeing from a culture that still does those things do not deserve to be barred
Correct - these are the persecuted minorities or those (who would need to be) renouncing that culture. So by definition they do not believe and would not have reason to go along with such things.
We have laws prohibiting
Exactly. But when police do not go into banlieu enclaves (Germany, France); or build a fortress-compound within a community, and use armoured transport to ferry police to and from work (Sweden) - how difficult is it to police those laws? If you even knew they were being broken. Etc
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by vin-tone » 16 Aug 2018, 20:21

Or say... a Catholic Church in Ballarat.

Don't for a minute pretend that our culture is free of these issues.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by slave » 16 Aug 2018, 20:27

noplanb wrote:
16 Aug 2018, 11:46
Why are there now instances of previously very unacceptable behaviour, even breaking the law, being played down or excused for certain groups in many countries?
A lot of this is simply spin. Who's in it for what, whats in it for who? etc etc.
I've become very aware that the rednecks tend to spew out enough vitriol online to make people consider whether there might actually be truth in it. Most of the time, it's just racist hate aimed at minorities, where rates of offending show few, if any, signs of being higher than the average amongst the general populace.

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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 20:29

Do you support a non racist, secular approach or not?
Up until recent times, the immigration issue was simpler, but now it's not. It is not a binary choice. As I was saying - we must leave labels aside - now who do you want in this country? Those who practice those things or not? - We should be able to refuse those people for whom this is part of their culture.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 20:36

it illustrates the point that we have laws in this country that override cultural traditions that are not appropriate here.
Yes! High-five that someone got prevented from doing it.
Now look beyond that - "Hizb ut-Tahrir posted an article..." - Here is a political organisation already here, already active, ready to defend the ways of those want to do things against AU law. It is not the end of it - only we can decide whether AU stays this way. Remember, we are only so many years behind the fate of terrible things that now happen as a matter of course in EU countries.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by veebass » 16 Aug 2018, 20:51

noplanb wrote:
16 Aug 2018, 20:29
Do you support a non racist, secular approach or not?
Up until recent times, the immigration issue was simpler, but now it's not. It is not a binary choice. As I was saying - we must leave labels aside - now who do you want in this country? Those who practice those things or not? - We should be able to refuse those people for whom this is part of their culture.
I see. No answer to my question, only a diversion.

I'll try a different tack. Not all Muslims practice the things you keep listing. To exclude them all would be a racist and non secular approach, which I thought you didn't like. How do you exclude the ones who do and not the ones who don't?

Do you exclude a two year old Anne Aly and her family just in case she grows up to do things we believe are unacceptable because she is part of a huge religion, some of the adherents of which do things we find unacceptable? Surely that is racist and or religious discrimination,. Surely you allow her and her family in, all things being equal, and use our existing laws to deal with the behaviour if it occurs?

I just wish you would admit that the approach you advocate is racist and non secular.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 20:56

A lot of this is simply spin
May I remind you of Rotheram and Telford in the UK? Many, many references if you want. *Likely more than a thousand* teenage and underage girls groomed and forced into sexual slavery in their own towns over period of more than a decade. *Police cover-up* - many articles. The catalyst for bringing it out into the open was a private investigator journalist writing a book on it!
The grooming gang members are reported to be predominantly of Islamic culture.
Here is a councillor caught in the midst of it - no binary solution here.
"Sarah Champion’s Article in The Sun:
“Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls. There. I said it. Does that make me a racist? Or am I just prepared to call out this horrifying problem for what it is?"
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/08/lefti ... in-the-uk/
The answer to being annoyed by 'vitriol' is to find out for yourself - do your own research - recognise what is extreme reporting one way or the other, and what nugget, if any, is true. Read.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by noplanb » 16 Aug 2018, 21:09

I'll try a different tack. Not all Muslims practice the things you keep listing. To exclude them all would be a racist and non secular approach, which I thought you didn't like. How do you exclude the ones who do and not the ones who don't?

Do you exclude a two year old Anne Aly and her family just in case she grows up to do things we believe are unacceptable because she is part of a huge religion, some of the adherents of which do things we find unacceptable? Surely that is racist and or religious discrimination,. Surely you allow her and her family in, all things being equal, and use our existing laws to deal with the behaviour if it occurs?

I just wish you would admit that the approach you advocate is racist and non secular.
Sounds like I would be a lot easier if I would only just be put in a box and stay there! ;)
What the exact answer is for immigration, down to its final, compromised detail - I wouldn't know. But I do know that burying our collective heads in the sand and comforting ourselves with 'well, at least we're not racist' - is not an answer either.

How do we exclude? A logical question, and logically, some must be excluded - otherwise logically, we argue for open borders, or close enough to it that it doesn't matter.
(If an Anne Aly was excluded early on, we could still welcome her when she was finally in a position to escape)

"Using our existing laws" - a great many examples of this now not working overseas - so many. We are the closest in AU to doing it *now* - as each day goes by, and if we hide inaction behind 'at least not being racist', then our chances slip away.
Ask rape victims in Germany if they were being sufficiently non-racist and secular.
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Re: Political Coverage By the Media in Our Country - PART TWO

Post by packrat » 16 Aug 2018, 21:18

noplanb wrote:
16 Aug 2018, 20:29
Do you support a non racist, secular approach or not?
Up until recent times, the immigration issue was simpler, but now it's not. It is not a binary choice. As I was saying - we must leave labels aside - now who do you want in this country? Those who practice those things or not? - We should be able to refuse those people for whom this is part of their culture.
Well I don’t want someone here who advocates for the torture of gay kids under the banner of gay conversion therapy claiming they “aren’t rally gay”.

But it looks like I have to, doesn’t it.

B>

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