Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

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bassbass
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Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by bassbass » 09 Oct 2018, 12:36

Well here's my latest vid. What started as a few frequency sweeps of my P Bass pickup snowballed in to a bit of an epic, so I cut it into two parts. Hope you guys dig it...



In Part 2, I do some direct recording so we can hopefully hear what the scope has shown us. I'll upload that one in a few days...

Cheers!
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by slowlearner » 09 Oct 2018, 14:00

Fantastic as per usual Rob. Love your work. :)

P.s. what's the frequency response of the human tongue on a P pickup?
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by vin-tone » 09 Oct 2018, 14:31

Awesome.

I've always tried to wrap my head around the difference between an onboard pre and a pedal pre... and/or your amp pre. Have you ever done tests on that? how much does the cable come into it?
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by basshack » 11 Oct 2018, 22:20

The things you miss when you look only on page 1 too frequently.

My latest set of basses have piezo set ups with two different switchable capacitors. Took a little while and the help of an electrical engineer mate to get it happening. Really did my head in for a while and had me thinking I'd brought the wrong capacitors. But no they were the right ones but I needed to pull apart the little preamp and create a different circuit than what was there. We ended up using 0.047mf and 0.068mf as the options to reduce the click/clack. Again nothing much happening past 3 on the dial as you showed, I was hoping for something more controllable but not without a lot of complication apparently. Could of have removed the pot all together and just used the switches, but what do you do with the hole once you've put it in?

I like the approach you've taken in the video Rob, breaking it down like you have with both the wiring schematic and the results makes it much more understandable. I'll be looking out for the 2nd part.
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by narcdor » 12 Oct 2018, 10:31

I understood about 20% but I’ll go back and have another go. Really interesting actually.
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by NotTheFish » 12 Oct 2018, 11:05

I love how you explain things Rob. If you get time I would like for you to explain the difference between a passive harness in a 2 pickup system (like a PJ setup) compared to an active preamp that has a buffer for each pickup before blending and how the 2 pickups interact differently in each setup (active EQ aside).

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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by PilbaraBass » 12 Oct 2018, 14:04

Thanks Rob,

This explains why my favourite sound of my P-bass is when I accidentally wired it straight-to-jack, and why ultimately, I may set up any of my future instruments with at least a straight-to-jack switch.
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by JimP » 12 Oct 2018, 14:19

I wasn't trying to, but I learned stuff... thanks Rob! Looking forward to part 2
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by JimP » 12 Oct 2018, 15:16

Speaking of tone, I came across this V12 tone control today and (I think) I understand it a bit better after seeing your vid Rob. I don't recall having seen these before. Is it a useful/useable design for bass vs a regular tone control?

The BQmusic V12 tone control consists of a rotary switch with eleven carefully selected capacitors and a no-load position. The no-load position takes the tone control completely out of the system adding extra highs that aren't there with a normal tone control. In the other positions the resonance peak of the pickups is lowered in well balanced steps, first adding mids and later adding lows until you end with a dark jazzy sound. A broad range of useful sounds unlike any tone control you ever heard.

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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by bassbass » 13 Oct 2018, 20:45

I've always tried to wrap my head around the difference between an onboard pre and a pedal pre... and/or your amp pre. Have you ever done tests on that? how much does the cable come into it?
Well it comes down to the load that the pickup "sees" (or feeds I guess). Most onboard pres have an active-passive switch and if that's the case then usually that means the vol (and blend) are between the pickups and the pre. So with that set up, the main difference between say a passive jazz feeding the same circuit in a stomp bax and the same jazz with that same circuit in the bass is obviously the cable between the bass and the pre, which will effect the treble response of the bass.

OTOH, some preamps, like the audear stuff has the pickups buffered directly, and all the active stuff is after this. So there's that z mode switch that (educated guess) changes the input impedance of each pickup's buffer channel. (There may also be a switched in capacitive load, I'm not sure.) So that's cool because you can get a passive sound, but with an active blend.

FWIW, I'm planning a couple more vids on this. My next project bass will have 2 pickups and I'll go through a simple active blend control and how to make one pickup sound warm and passive like a P bass, and the other pickup sounding nice and bright like a 70's stingray.
My latest set of basses have piezo set ups with two different switchable capacitors.
Piezos are a different story, but yes they certainly are very much effected by the load that they feed. In general, you need a very high impedance for under saddle pickups etc so they don't sound very honky and mid-rangey. This usually means a fet buffer or a design that uses an opamp that has fet inputs.
I like the approach you've taken in the video Rob, breaking it down like you have with both the wiring schematic and the results makes it much more understandable. I'll be looking out for the 2nd part.
Cheers Blaine. It strikes me that a lot of guys, (even some guitar techs!) don't have an understanding of electronics schematic diagrams. When you see simple passive guitar circuits written out as proper schematics, not just wiring diagrams, they are far easier to understand.
I understood about 20% but I’ll go back and have another go. Really interesting actually.
Ha ha. I know that first part is pretty sciencey, but the 2nd part hopefully consolidates all those traces and stuff with direct recorded samples. Damn upload speeds are a joke, and I've got other video stuff to drop box over the next few days, but part 2 will be up pretty soon...
If you get time I would like for you to explain the difference between a passive harness in a 2 pickup system (like a PJ setup) compared to an active preamp that has a buffer for each pickup before blending and how the 2 pickups interact differently in each setup (active EQ aside).
Sure man. Passive blending (with 2 vols or a blend pot) is surprisingly complex. But I'm planning a few more vids on this topic in the future...
This explains why my favourite sound of my P-bass is when I accidentally wired it straight-to-jack, and why ultimately, I may set up any of my future instruments with at least a straight-to-jack switch.
Well, in part 2, there's a bit more info on this. My P is actually wired with a no-load volume pot, plus a switched cap type tone pot. Neither of these are connected when dimed, so I can access the pickup directly at the jack with no load. I actually recorded with a 1meg z fet buffer that's built into a jack, so you can hear that 4khz peak. Yeah I quite like that sound, but it certainly doesn't sound like a traditional P that's for sure! FWIW, I have a video on my no-load volume pot. Unfortunately, I recently realised that the input z of the DI I recorded with is much lower than I thought, so the effect is pretty subtle. But in part 2 of this vid, I demonstrate that as well, but with the pickup straight into a 1meg Z.

https://youtu.be/a_hoNAT4JcM

Speaking of tone, I came across this V1 ... control?

Nice one. I actually also have a vid about designing and making something just like this.

https://youtu.be/X3ujHtoHMg8

It's a bit cheeky calling this vid "diy tone-styler" because it's not really a tone styler, (which has an inductor and simply gives you (I think) 6 different tones with various caps and the inductor). Mine is designed to be a progressive treble cut, but with a sharper roll-off than a regular tone control. It works really well, I still have it in this (my only passive) bass. But it's tailored to this specific pickup. I don't know how this guy is selling this as a one-size-fits-all kinda thing. As I mentioned in the video, the effect of a capacitor across your pickup is entirely a product of the pickup's properties, especially its inductance. If you used this with a really low inductance pickup like a stingray for example, I'd think that the first 3 or 4 positions would barely make an audible change, then when turned all the way down, the pickup wouldn't be warm and fat, but honky and midrangey. Having said this, I can't really see what is on that switch, so I may be completely wrong, lol!...


Anyway, thanks heaps for all the comments! :thumbup:
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Re: Video Drop! All About Tone Controls: Part 1...

Post by Barney » 15 Oct 2018, 19:37

Nice work Rob!

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