Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

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Classic5
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by Classic5 » 23 Jun 2018, 21:42

Before I saw the second bit I though well that's worked out well. Necessity is the mother of invention and the removable ramp idea was an excellent way to turn a mishap into an excellent feature. The popularity of ramps is definitely on the increase and I love your idea of a removable ramp.

Then the second part. Ouch....that hurt. If its too far gone, and maybe its not, is it possible to redo the body? Dont know, just a thought. That neck is so nice perhaps a new set of body wings can be attached? I'm sure you'll work out a way to rescue it Michael.
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drbass
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by drbass » 24 Jun 2018, 18:56

OK, project "Reject Rescue" in full swing.

Big hole:

The ramp will have a 14 mm base of walnut with 2 threaded inserts, topped with a wenge/oak veneer (just something light)/wenge top. all up about 10 mm high, 20" radius with nice smooth edges.
The alternative insert will have a 15 mm walnut base with 2 threaded inserts and a 5 mm wenge top.

Very rough clean-up of the jack hole:


I'll clean it up properly and drop a piece of walnut in - will be visible but that's OK, it's not going to anyone.

And toneblock all drilled:

Needs a little bit of sanding and it'll be beaut.

Thought about the crack in the quilted maple and might do an inlay, racing stripe or something curvy, walnut or wenge. Will have a think about it. When you clamp it real hard it's almost invisible but I'm not sure that it'll hold with superglue, something to discuss with the brains trust on Friday.

Next one is already being planned.
Exactly the same basic specs:
5 piece neck with 2 wenge and 3 maple strips, a little less tapered, and square where the body starts (will make it easier to fit the top as neatly as possible);
wenge board (less dramatic, see pic below) with 24 frets;
walnut wings, light veneer, wenge layer and amboyna burl top - see below;
Delano SBC pickups, Nordstrand 3b-3 pre, Dingwall 4-way rotary pickup selector, mini 3-way switch for each pickup;
Hipshot hardware.

Will be (OK, SHOULD be) a lot easier considering I've gone through almost a complete build already and seen the "pitfalls". Won't make any routing mistakes this time, and will most definitely avoid screwing up the jack hole (pretty sure I know how now).

Pics:
board:


Amboyna top:


No, there won't be a violin hip.

All good.

Regards,
Michael
- Merlin “Kermit” 6 multi, Merlin Gaia 6 fretless, Merlin Rockmachine 5, Merlin NT5, Manta 5, Manta 5 YOLO, ("Red Baron" 5), Q 5, (Sandberg Classic S2-5), (Thumb-4)
- Genzler Magellan 800, 2 Genzler BA12-3

basshack
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by basshack » 24 Jun 2018, 19:31

Proving you can't keep a good man down. I think when you're finished the rescue you'll have a very nice instrument, maybe not what you intended but still quality.
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Curto
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by Curto » 25 Jun 2018, 08:28

I'm confident that this is going to turn out surprisingly amazing. :thumbup:
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by drbass » 25 Jun 2018, 08:50

Thanks, guys,

Nice to see this sort of support. Not easy posting "failures" but it's all part of growing up and, more importantly, transparency (which seems to be cast to the side more and more).

I am VERY confident that both the reject rescue and the new build will be great instruments (albeit - in the case of the rr - different to what I set out to do).

Let's not forget the Special Q build. Filled the end holes of the fret slots yesterday and am super-happy with the colour match this time. Took about an hour of mixing oak and maple Timbermate to be almost indiscernible from the birdseye maple board. It'll probably change a little bit again once the notary is applied (every material reacts differently) but that's what it is.

Regards,
Michael
- Merlin “Kermit” 6 multi, Merlin Gaia 6 fretless, Merlin Rockmachine 5, Merlin NT5, Manta 5, Manta 5 YOLO, ("Red Baron" 5), Q 5, (Sandberg Classic S2-5), (Thumb-4)
- Genzler Magellan 800, 2 Genzler BA12-3

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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by basshack » 25 Jun 2018, 09:38

We need to invest in a CNC to cut fret slots so that

1) they are uniform in depth
2) don't get wonky or too wide
3) can be set up so that we don't have to have to fill up the ends.
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by drbass » 25 Jun 2018, 09:52

basshack wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 09:38
We need to invest in a CNC to cut fret slots so that

1) they are uniform in depth
2) don't get wonky or too wide
3) can be set up so that we don't have to have to fill up the ends.
Hmmm. On that note (and before I address those points, Blaine) I remember watching one of the Warwick production videos, and they basically make all the holes (even the ones for the pots) with their "5D" router - would love to have one do that sort of stuff instead of drilling. Anyway.

1) I have a fretslot saw with a depth guide so that's all under control (didn't you see me use it last Friday? Maybe you were too spaced out from the epoxy fumes ;) ). Works really well, and you can simply adjust the cutting depth to the depth of the tang on the wire you're using.
2) I hear you. I always pre-cut using the device in the workshop to have a reference, and cut to final depth once I'm happy with everything else. I find that my saw is just that tiny little bit wider than the ones in the workshop. And it takes a little bit of practice but I'm not comfortable to stay straight (not wonky) and keep the slots uniformly wide.
3) YES! I'd love that. Binding would be an obvious alternative (even using a length of offset from the same board - but then you'll always have a glue line).
I have considered to just add a little bit of superglue to the sanding dust collecting in the fret slots when radius-sanding, just at the end of the slots, and I'll try that for the reject rescue. Should work for dark timbers like wenge but will not work for maple or similar since that goes dark when adding glue to the dust. Once that sets you just sand it back. Will keep you updated on how that works out.

CNC would be great for a lot of things.

Regards,
Michael
- Merlin “Kermit” 6 multi, Merlin Gaia 6 fretless, Merlin Rockmachine 5, Merlin NT5, Manta 5, Manta 5 YOLO, ("Red Baron" 5), Q 5, (Sandberg Classic S2-5), (Thumb-4)
- Genzler Magellan 800, 2 Genzler BA12-3

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narcdor
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by narcdor » 25 Jun 2018, 10:04

The invisible fret ends are nice on Warwicks and cut with a little saw and tiny router as well I seem to recall. I’m not sure about all the CNC, especially for what they charge for a master built. Master CNC programmer?
Strings: Fender, Framus, Warwick, Custom
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maxgroover
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by maxgroover » 25 Jun 2018, 10:16

drbass wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 18:56
OK, project "Reject Rescue" in full swing.

Big hole:
Put three pickups in there! You get kind of a ramp and more tonal possibilities all in one :D
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by drbass » 25 Jun 2018, 10:19

narcdor wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 10:04
The invisible fret ends are nice on Warwicks and cut with a little saw and tiny router as well I seem to recall. I’m not sure about all the CNC, especially for what they charge for a master built. Master CNC programmer?
Yes, a little circular saw attachment, and the tiny router bit is used to square off the slots - pretty cool stuff.

Well, yes, they do a lot with CNC but the visit last November was a real eye-opener for me: what pops out of the CNC routers is really rough. There is A LOT of manual labour going into those instruments, and of course the quality control is pretty tight (remember the shot of the second attempt at a bass that had tiny flaws and was basically chucked?). I suppose that's where the money goes as well.

Anyway, there are good sides to CNC.

Regards,
Michael
- Merlin “Kermit” 6 multi, Merlin Gaia 6 fretless, Merlin Rockmachine 5, Merlin NT5, Manta 5, Manta 5 YOLO, ("Red Baron" 5), Q 5, (Sandberg Classic S2-5), (Thumb-4)
- Genzler Magellan 800, 2 Genzler BA12-3

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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by drbass » 25 Jun 2018, 10:21

maxgroover wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 10:16
drbass wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 18:56
OK, project "Reject Rescue" in full swing.

Big hole:
Put three pickups in there! You get kind of a ramp and more tonal possibilities all in one :D
Simple answer, Matt: no. This will be quite different to all previous builds and I expect PLENTY of tonal possibilities. Plus: more expensive, more complicated wiring, heavier - you get the idea. 2 is plenty.

Regards,
Michael
- Merlin “Kermit” 6 multi, Merlin Gaia 6 fretless, Merlin Rockmachine 5, Merlin NT5, Manta 5, Manta 5 YOLO, ("Red Baron" 5), Q 5, (Sandberg Classic S2-5), (Thumb-4)
- Genzler Magellan 800, 2 Genzler BA12-3

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narcdor
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by narcdor » 25 Jun 2018, 10:36

maxgroover wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 10:16
drbass wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 18:56
OK, project "Reject Rescue" in full swing.

Big hole:
Put three pickups in there! You get kind of a ramp and more tonal possibilities all in one :D
When too many pickups aren't enough...

Image
Strings: Fender, Framus, Warwick, Custom
Knobs: Mesa, MarkBass
Patch: TC Electronic, Aguilar, T-Rex

basshack
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by basshack » 25 Jun 2018, 10:39

drbass wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 09:52
basshack wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 09:38
We need to invest in a CNC to cut fret slots so that

1) they are uniform in depth
2) don't get wonky or too wide
3) can be set up so that we don't have to have to fill up the ends.
Hmmm. On that note (and before I address those points, Blaine) I remember watching one of the Warwick production videos, and they basically make all the holes (even the ones for the pots) with their "5D" router - would love to have one do that sort of stuff instead of drilling. Anyway.

1) I have a fretslot saw with a depth guide so that's all under control (didn't you see me use it last Friday? Maybe you were too spaced out from the epoxy fumes ;) ). Works really well, and you can simply adjust the cutting depth to the depth of the tang on the wire you're using.
2) I hear you. I always pre-cut using the device in the workshop to have a reference, and cut to final depth once I'm happy with everything else. I find that my saw is just that tiny little bit wider than the ones in the workshop. And it takes a little bit of practice but I'm not comfortable to stay straight (not wonky) and keep the slots uniformly wide.
3) YES! I'd love that. Binding would be an obvious alternative (even using a length of offset from the same board - but then you'll always have a glue line).
I have considered to just add a little bit of superglue to the sanding dust collecting in the fret slots when radius-sanding, just at the end of the slots, and I'll try that for the reject rescue. Should work for dark timbers like wenge but will not work for maple or similar since that goes dark when adding glue to the dust. Once that sets you just sand it back. Will keep you updated on how that works out.

CNC would be great for a lot of things.

Regards,
Michael
Yes I did see you cutting slots and no the glue didn't get to me, at least I don't think it did.... What were we talking about?

Slow and steady is the way to go with fret cuts. I had to do the uke ones by hand and I appreciate the guided saw all the more because of it. I like fretless builds even better and not having truss rods is heaven.

Yes the dust from the radius sanding and a drop of superglue is what I do and it comes in nicely.
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narcdor
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by narcdor » 25 Jun 2018, 10:40

drbass wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 10:19
narcdor wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 10:04
The invisible fret ends are nice on Warwicks and cut with a little saw and tiny router as well I seem to recall. I’m not sure about all the CNC, especially for what they charge for a master built. Master CNC programmer?
Yes, a little circular saw attachment, and the tiny router bit is used to square off the slots - pretty cool stuff.

Well, yes, they do a lot with CNC but the visit last November was a real eye-opener for me: what pops out of the CNC routers is really rough. There is A LOT of manual labour going into those instruments, and of course the quality control is pretty tight (remember the shot of the second attempt at a bass that had tiny flaws and was basically chucked?). I suppose that's where the money goes as well.

Anyway, there are good sides to CNC.

Regards,
Michael
Yeah I know what you mean, the vast majority of the difference between a high quality instrument and a knocked out one is the wood quality and the finishing. But you enjoy fret work so much I know you would miss it :lol:

I definitely appreciated the easier approach of cutting frets with the jig, that freehand job on my first build was terrifying if ultimately successful...
Strings: Fender, Framus, Warwick, Custom
Knobs: Mesa, MarkBass
Patch: TC Electronic, Aguilar, T-Rex

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drbass
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Re: Future Builds - Kinda Not Random

Post by drbass » 25 Jun 2018, 10:44

Good to see we're on the same page, Blaine.

And Nick, consider the frets on the original Kermit - now that was nerve-wrecking.

Regards,
Michael
- Merlin “Kermit” 6 multi, Merlin Gaia 6 fretless, Merlin Rockmachine 5, Merlin NT5, Manta 5, Manta 5 YOLO, ("Red Baron" 5), Q 5, (Sandberg Classic S2-5), (Thumb-4)
- Genzler Magellan 800, 2 Genzler BA12-3

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